Damarius Johnson
Good afternoon, Mark, thank you for making time to have this conversation about your work. I just want to know, in a few sentence if you could introduce yourself, a little bit about yourself as a researcher, your background, your research interests.

Mark Cox
So my name is Mark J. Cox. I am currently the writing specialist at Bowie State University, Maryland’s oldest historically black college, which is where also received my master’s degree in the Department of Language, Literature and Cultural Studies in English. And my research interests right now in the interim, before I pursue the PhD is language and identity, particularly in the black community, as a result of our sojourn here in America, how our language that was taken from us, you know, shapes our thinking, and how us learning English also shapes our thinking, because we also have the nuance of African American Vernacular in there as well.

Damarius Johnson
Yes, thank you. Thank you for setting the table. So could you talk a bit about what you see as the purpose of studying history as relevant for the present and relevant for the future?

Mark Cox
Okay, most definitely. So the way I see history as being important for the present is because history out of all of our studies, is most qualified to reward our research, because as we know, what’s often repeated is that there is no idea under the sun that is original. So if you can, you know, think about an idea, there’s probably somebody somewhere who’s also either wrote about that idea, documented that idea, or spoken about that idea, which can help us in the present time, to build a better and brighter future. And so particularly, as a member of the African American community, learning history is paramount. Because by and large, even if we go chase back our genealogy, we hit a wall. So why do we hit the wall, because of the transatlantic slave trade primarily. So in looking at history, it kind of inspires me personally, as an African American, to do something with my life worthwhile. And I think it also helps us as a community to view ourselves in a better light and to make a more indelible impression on the future.

Damarius Johnson
Wonderful, wonderful. And could you talk a bit more about what you termed of hitting that wall? What are some of the ways that you’ve searched to get across that wall to get across the transatlantic slave trade to uncover some of those great achievements that you spoke about?

Mark Cox
Right on. Yeah, so I did the ancestry.com. genealogy, and I realized on my father’s side, I can’t go back further than Boston. So I’m sure there are some southern roots that are mixed in. But, and not knowing where my father’s family came from beyond Boston, like at the turn of the 20th century, that right there to me kind of creates a lot of consternation within my being for that reason. Now, on my mother’s side, we can go back to the Caldwell plantation, which is in southwest Georgia. And so that’s where I hit those walls. And that’s like going back to just before the Emancipation Proclamation, but other than that, I can’t really find out much, but I’ll tell you what really did it for me when I was at Howard University in undergrad, I was fortunate enough to be a part of a study abroad trip to Morocco, which is in Africa. And in taking this trip to Morocco really helped me as a Muslim American, also solidify my roots to see that not only was I a part of a community here in America, I was linked to a universal community, as well through the faith. So that’s one of the ways in which I tried to overcome that wall by looking at our present day existence in Africa. And even now, the internet, things are so small, you can really use things like different apps like Clubhouse and what have you and hop into rooms where you can speak to people from the continent, right in real time.

Damarius Johnson
Yes, that’s wonderful. And I know that that is, in part what your essay is about. So could you talk about how you went about doing the research to find the picture and then tell the story?

Mark Cox
The reason why I chose that particular figure and to write that particular article about Imam Warith Deen Muhammad is because he is a, I would say, unsung figure in black history. And he’s famous and infamous, when kind of keep that unsung, famous and infamous theme throughout the explanation. So when I say unsung, we don’t realize you know, cities like Philadelphia that have a dominant African American Muslim culture there we don’t really understand like the cause of that for many years, Imam Warith Deen Muhammad was the minister of the Philadelphia mosque what was called temple at the time. And so when the most Honorable Elijah Muhammad transitioned in 1975, Warith Deen Muhammad became the leader of the Nation of Islam. And so a lot of people don’t know a lot about that history outside of black Islam in America. But furthermore, those who are largely a part of Islam in America, they choose a side whether they are pro Imam Warith Deen Muhammad or against Imam Warith Deen Muhammad. So I guess we’ll start off with the good the reason why a lot of people, including myself, celebrate Imam Warith Deen Muhammad is because he took the members of the Nation of Islam and acquainted them with the Arabic language, which is the language of the Quran. And he also took the members of the Nation of Islam into the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, which is his tradition, which by and large wasn’t a part of the study in the Nation of Islam, not that it was forbidden, but it just wasn’t featured. And so Imam Muhammad, associating the Muslims with the five daily prayers, practicing Ramadan with the rest of the Muslim world, this has had a lot of, in my opinion, a lot, a lot of positive points because it linked black Americans with the larger Islamic community throughout the world. And we hear about this with Malcolm X with going to Mecca and his transformation. But you know, that put to a period by the assassination that we don’t really go any further about, you know, what would have happened with Malcolm X had he lived? So I think in a lot of ways, Imam WD Muhammad has worked builds upon Malcolm X’s transition to what we call orthodox Islam or mainstream Islam, and how Imam WD Muhammad, in the way that he went about doing it, there’s also a downside to it. So the reason why I chose to write that article is to showcase that yeah, there were a lot of positive things that he did, but at the same time, it was lacking a lot of the cultural empowering language that the Nation of Islam was known for, prior to him taking over and leadership. And so that’s one of the things I wanted to highlight. And then him and Minister Farrakhan, who started the Nation of Islam, again, with the teachings of Elijah Muhammad in 1978, Warith Deen Muhammad and him outwardly appear as polar opposites, but you know, human beings being human beings. You know, he had his community, he has this community. And so to write about how they were able to come together and atone and the year 2000, at Savior’s day, the Savior’s Day celebration, was something I think we needed to know, because here in America, we don’t have sectarian violence, like you’ll hear about in the Middle East with regard to Islam. Even though the two camps are opposed ideologically, they still can settle on the black experience, and the fact that both working on the benefit of black America and black Muslims, and Muslims internationally as well. And so that’s why I chose to write on that topic, because myself, I don’t necessarily have a negative opinion of Warith Deen Muhammad, especially now that he you know, has passed away, I think we need to go back and study what he did to improve upon what he did and to correct any mistakes that may have occurred.

Damarius Johnson
Absolutely, that’s very insightful. And I just wanted to know if you could talk just to explain for our readers, the significance of Savior’s Day, what it means in the calendar and why this event was the opportunity for additional mental Hotel.

Mark Cox
So Savior’s Day is the celebration of the founder of the Nation of Islam, Wallace Farah Muhammad, who said that he was from the holy city of Mecca, and his birthday is February 26, 1877. I’d say there was a question here too, about Black History Month and how do I celebrate it so it’s known in the black American circle that Savior’s Day is the crowning event of Black History Month. So Savior’s Day was also celebrated by Imam Warith Deen Muhammad’s community to commemorate the founding of the Islamic faith here in America, and saviors they, of course, is still practiced in a Minister Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam as well. The fact they both are holding separate Savior’s Days for many years set a lot about the ideological difference where people’s families like even though this is a black history moment, people’s families would have to make decisions about which one they were going to go to and what have you. So the fact that they came together for this display of unity and this coming together as brothers and two people who are a part of the life and legacy, one biologically and one spiritually of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, that meant a lot to both followers that we can continue this practice of brotherhood and not allowing the differences to get the better of us, as we see in other parts of the world where, you know, Muslims are at odds with one another.

Damarius Johnson
Sure. So could you give us a sense today within the nation of the communities in which you’re familiar? Do folks see these, you know, after Savior’s Day, that these two communities are unified or in conversation with each other, I mean, how tense is the ideological difference?

Mark Cox
Today there is still the practice of Salata Juma, which is in the Arabic world, and in larger Muslim world, the day of congregations, there’s not really a holy day, but that day is Friday, as is observed in the wider Islamic world. And so the Nation of Islam does still practice Juma prayers, and so does the mosque cares community, which is Imam Warith Deen Muhammad’s community. They still practice a lot of Joomla. And so sometimes you will see Nation of Islam members at the Joomla, including myself, go into the Joomla, Avi meme or Warith Deen Muhammad’s community, and vice versa, having those members of his community coming to the Joomla prayers, and the Nation of Islam. And so yeah, there is still an ideological difference. Primarily, you know, the Nation of Islam, believes in an anthropomorphic God who as I said before master Farah Muhammad, he is seen as the mahadi, which is supposed to be the self guided one who comes at the end of at the end of the world, essentially. And then Imam Warith Deen Muhammad’s community the focus is largely on Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, 1400 years ago, not so much the focus on Elijah Muhammad as the Prophet and Messenger, although they still acknowledge the Honorable Elijah Muhammad as the founder of Islam in America and still practice things like do for self practice things, like how to eat to live and unit dressing and living modestly. The militancy isn’t there as it is in the Nation of Islam under the leadership of Minister Farrakhan.

Damarius Johnson
Wonderful, thank you for explaining that critical distinction in how complicated those nuances are, even today, our readers really benefit from being able to have that context from the time period that you wrote about and thinking about what it means now, within those communities. That’s really insightful. I’ll shift to a few questions about Black History Month, if you could talk about your first memories of first introductions to black history.

Mark Cox
I grew up in northern New Jersey, in a black community that was situated in a larger white community. And then plus, being from northern New Jersey, there’s still like a pro black Afro-centric field coming right outside of the city of Newark, which is where the first Black Power conference was held, I think 1967 or ’68, with Amiri Baraka and Maulana Karenga. So that being said, my mother was very pro black as well, she came of age in the 60s, and was a part of a lot of demonstrations. So everything in the house, more or less, was focused on black culture, black art, and black history. So my first recollection of Black History Month was she gifted me a book that the post office had released, which is where she worked of stamps of all the famous black Americans on stamps. And so looking at that, I think I must have been about six or seven years old, really acquainted me with black history, that here were black heroes who were put on stamps to be memorialized for their achievements. And that I guess, if I can pinpoint my first experience with Black History Month, was that book and reading about famous black Americans who have been memorialized on postage stamps.

Damarius Johnson
Yeah, so since that early introduction, how do you celebrate I mean, you’ve already explained the importance of saviors day in terms of Black History Month. Certainly we recognize that within the black community. But if there are any broader things that you do from year to year in terms of study or community involvement, what would you say you do Black History Month to celebrate?

Mark Cox
So as an educator, I of course, would include more black history lessons during Black History Month. And that isn’t to say that I don’t include black history throughout the rest of the year. And I guess my view of Black History Month, for the benefit of the listeners is kind of unique in the sense that went to undergraduate at Howard University and graduate school at Bowie State University and still work at Bowie State University. So Howard, of course, being a prestigious, historically, black college, Bowie being Maryland’s oldest, historically black college year round, there is a focus on black history. So that doesn’t diminish the importance of Black History Month. I think really, in Black History Month, I tried to reacquaint myself with the works of Dr. Carter G. Woodson, who of course is the founder of Black History Month, then that’s probably how I celebrated just kind of revisiting a lot of his works to education at the Negro.

Damarius Johnson
Absolutely, absolutely. But But you’d also say, as you indicated earlier that it is a continuous study and continuous work no matter what month of the year.

Mark Cox
That’s right.

Damarius Johnson
Yes, specific figures, events or moments from black history that everyone should know, in addition to the essay, they should rather the other figures. And I want to focus on here, because you do have this expertise in Islam in Black Muslim communities, if there are significant figures that folks who are not in the community may not be widely known, but if you could call the name of some of those folks so that we can follow up and continue our study.

Mark Cox
Yeah actually, actually, yes, there are two more articles I intended to write. But I don’t know if I shared this with you all on the team. We had a son back in January, our first son, so that kind of shortened the time, but there are definitely a lot of figures that I think we should focus on primarily within the spiritual tradition that’s outside of the Judeo Christian tradition. So two figures that I think that we should know about, in addition to the one I wrote about: Alice Coltrane, also Turia Sangeeta Nanda. That’s her Sanskrit name, the widow of John Coltrane, she was a black woman who started an ashram, fully functional ashram on 40 acres of land in Southern California and had people from all races coming to worship in this Ashram, as devotees. In fact, Flying Lotus, the record producer today is her nephew. And she, for a long time had gotten out of making music, popular music, and strictly was making devotional music, a lot of that is being released now, but to see the merger of, because she grew up in the Christian Church, the black gospel tradition, blended with the mantras in Sanskrit, and it just gives it a new feeling. So whereas a lot of times gospel music, particularly that coming from the Deep South, a lot of times can be very mournful because of the conditions of suffering that were taking place in the south by black Americans. Her music, on the other hand, is like outside of that realm. It’s like just pure blissful and it’s like uplifting. And in addition to those albums, she also said that God revealed three books of Scripture to her, Endless Wisdom Volume One and Two and Divine Discourses, which are bound books that are almost like Bible, I shouldn’t say Bible length, more like the length of New Testament in their length. And a lot of people don’t know about her the fact that she was from America, and had these divine experiences to the point where she was able to lead a spiritual community in addition to being the widow of John Coltrane. I think it’s really important, because a lot of times in America because of the patriarchal Phallocentric slant of the society, a lot of times John Coltrane is acknowledged to the neglect of his wife, Alice Coltrane, they have truly phenomenal woman. And the other person I wanted to mention, was the jazz musician Sun Ra, Sun Ra, also another one of these figures who to me, from my research, I have found there is a connection between the rhetoric and when I say rhetoric I mean it in the purest sense of the word, love the rhetoric of Sun Ra’s teachings, and the teachings of the Nation of Islam, in the sense of they kind of flow in a catechism. And they talk about these far out events what will proceed as like foreign events such as UFOs, and life on other planets, the epistemology of the black man or woman of America and the destiny of the black man or woman of America. And he claims in addition to being a beyond gifted jazz musician, that he was contacted by these extraterrestrial beings and taking on this space trip. And so people are, you know, we like his music, we look like the costumes and kind of get caught up in the showmanship. However, this man really believed this stuff, and was really teaching this stuff. So I knew that Sun Ra spent a lot of time in Chicago early on, so I wonder if that’s where the teachers of the Nation of Islam and sunrise intersect or don’t but um, it’s very, very interesting figure. I guess two more figures I’d like to mention to Jean Toomer of the Harlem Renaissance, people don’t realize that he was a deeply spiritual man as well. W.E.B. DuBois credited Jean Toomer’s book, Cain with Starting the Harlem Renaissance. And even though Cain is a book that kind of reads, like a revelation, because it has, like so many genres of work and like poetry, there’s songs. There’s a novel, they’re short stories, I mean, just a really interesting work, published by him, he gave up writing, then began to become a teacher what is known as the Fourth Way, which is a form of esoteric Christianity. And he did this for many years and wrote this book called The Essentials, which is a book of aphorisms that he coined through the language of the Fourth Way. A truly gifted dynamic person but he shows that black people dealing with his ontological vulnerability being that many black people in America don’t essentially have a unifying philosophy outside of the traumatic experience that we all have endured. These people that I mentioned from Jean Toomer, Sun Ra, Alice Coltrane, they have tried to look beyond the veil of the trauma, and tried to create a another mythos that could empower the black community, similar in the way that the Nation of Islam has done for black people here in America.

Damarius Johnson
Yes, thank you. Thank you. And that’s incredibly important, Mark. And I wonder, just by way of closing here, if you could talk a bit about the statement that you just gave in terms of having a broader sense of meaning or purpose or mythos to guide experience? Is that something that draws you to the work of studying these individuals or studying black history? What would you say compels you to have interest in this work as an educator, I mean, in uplifting these stories, such as the ones that you just offered to us?

Mark Cox
Yeah, absolutely. Because like I said, a lot of times, we look at the black experience as a traumatic experience, which by and large if trauma did happen to us, however, at this very moment, and they say, what was the best time, what was the best time period or history for black people in America? I’ll say right now, you know, right now, things are the best they’ve ever been for us. And there are people who have realized that and have written down stories, to guide us into a better, brighter new day, that same brand new day that we sing about in the black national anthem. You know, this, the bright new day is here, where we’re here now. So I think that educators, teachers should look at some of these lesser known figures, primarily people who were perceived as eccentric, but were effective at community building and uplifting other people. Because there is the narrative that yeah, these people were eccentric because they were outside of the mainstream ideology of the dominant culture, and outside of the mainstream African American culture. However, these people, we’re still talking about them now. And we’re still decoding and trying to decipher the teachings that they have given us. And they’re creating new people as new people new once a converts, but new followers to these ideas that they were promulgating, and I think that it’s important that we look at some of these people, I mean, even people lesser known like Clarence 13x, The Five Percenters and look at the effect that the Five Percent teachings has had on hip hop, there are people like Noble Drew Ali, who founded the Moorish Americans Morrish Science Temple here in America, but people don’t talk about that, he was a contemporary of Marcus Garvey. And so here we have 1914, these organizations were founded the same year that World War I was occurring, black people were beginning to go back for their ideologies and their ontologies that they had to create systems of being. And so that’s what kind of, I guess, you know, sounds like I’m doing my master’s thesis defense again. But that’s kind of what I’ve been studying. What fuels my studies is this ontological vulnerability that we have, and who is the true I am, like when we say I am, what is the pure I am, that black people in America embody outside of this traumatic experience, because the traumatic experience oftentimes overshadows the pure I am, so we are allowed to just be. That’s what I want to see like, who are we capable of becoming if we were allowed to just be?

Damarius Johnson
Absolutely, thank you. Thank you, very compelling and powerful in terms of the content and also in terms of the values that guide the work. So thank you for that insight. Could you talk about your entry point to the Picturing Black History Project, how you found out about it, why you decided to write for it?

Mark Cox
Being part of the HBCU network, of the black academic network, a good friend of mine, who also has written for picturing Black History Project, one James R. Morgan III, he’s the one that told me about the project. He already released a book on the American western principle of Freemasonry. And so him telling me about the opportunity to get involved with Picturing Black History is what compelled me, but I’m happy to be a part of it. I know Getty Images, as I was looking through a lot of the archives, have captured a lot of significant moments of black history. And they seem like the minor moments, but at the same time looking at this history, in terms of the minor moments, which undergird the larger moments is what inspired me to get involved with the project. It’s just I found a lot of pictures I wanted to use for certain articles. They weren’t available, but c’est la vie. You know, still happy to be a part of it. Anyway.